This is the thread for all you Mac geeks out there... First topic: Jobs's keynote at MWSF and the associated announcements. New PowerBooks - 12" and 17" models Airport Extreme - Apple's implementation of 802.11g Keynote - Presentation software (what...
I did an upgrade on my 10.2 Powerbook (brand new) and had no problems. I've heard both stories; some folks did upgrades that blew up, and a lot had no issues either.
I'd say if it's a brand new machine, upgrade should be fine.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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OK, it's been a year, and here is what was just announced at MWSF by Mr. Jobs himself:
iPod Mini - the 4 GB "shiny" new iPod. Also, the 299 iPod has been upped to 15 GB.
Garage Band - a new part of iLife to make music. It's 49 and included free with all new Macs. It is a music instrument and recording tool, that can mix up to 64 tracks, comes with 50 software instruments, over 1,000 professional loops, and 200 effects. It can record live instruments and take input from a USB or MIDI controller. It simulates various modern and vintage amps for guitar playback.
The optional 99 Jam Pack adds 100 more instruments, 2,000 more loops, 15 more amps, and more effects.
Pepsi will be giving away 100 million songs in the iTunes Music Store. Pepsi's iTunes Music Store giveaway will begin on February 1. Yellow caps noting the 100 million song giveaway will have a 1 in 3 chance of winning.
Also updates to iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, and Final Cut Express. The best update is iPhoto (in my opinion); it now is capable of handling large libraries. I hear they demo-ed it with a 25,000 photo library with nary a hiccup. Yay!
Microsoft announced Office 2004, an upgrade to Office X. People who purchase Office X now until the spring, when 2004 is released, will be eligible for a free upgrade.
Jobs also noted that iTunes Music Store has 70 of the market share for online music purchasing; that 50,000 audio books were sold for the quarter; that 500,000 songs are now online, making the store the largest online; and that one person has spent 29,500 on iTunes Music Store. Yes, 29,500.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
I'm an audio professional, and I can't wait to get my hands on GarageBand. Considering it's offered along with the rest of the iLife suite, the power that they demonstrated at the keynote is INSANE. This is a complete STEAL.
Marcelo - those of us who already have a Mac have to pay 49 for GarageBand. But it's bundled free with any new Mac.
Still, 49 is sweet! It looks to basically be a stripped down version of Soundtrack. Either way, it's gonna be fun.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
With the new 15 GB model, it's a good time to pick up a 10 GB (if you can find one).
A lot of retailers (including Apple stores) are dropping the price by up to fifty bucks until they move that old inventory out. So pick up a 10 GB for only 250! Good deal.
Personally, I'm going to hold onto my old first gen 5 GB for now. My prediction is that once the inventory of 20 and 40 GB 'Pods has gone down, Apple will magically release larger versions of those too :)
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
"one person has spent 29,500 on iTunes Music Store. Yes, 29,500."
What the ( ! was this person thinking?
That's 29,500 songs. If they listened to ten songs on their iPod every day, it'd take them just over eight years to hear all their music.
They could have spent 5-10 of that and bought the tunes at allofmp3.com. Or, if they wanted to listen to the music at their computer, they could have paid 120 a year to Napster or Rhapsody.
My guess is that it is some kind of shared account setup. Or someone purchasing music from iTMS for folks overseas.
Seriously, who the hell has that kind of music budget? But then again...
Maybe it is one of those services where they fill an iPod with music for you, and you plug it in at your store instead of Muzak? They could authorize all their iPods to a master server at the office, and then dump all the music (as needed) to each 'Pod.
Seriously, I bet that's what it is. Welcome to the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
OK so someone [bleep!]ed up this thread...when you reply to it now, it says "cannot send email", and doesn't update properly.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
I'm guessing the price will drop, Rik. I also think that there's the whole elitist thing about the iPod. If they made them 99, then 1) they wouldn't be able to meet demand, and 2) cheap ass bastids would own iPods and then they would no longer be cool.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
I agree with Mugsy on this one. Apple has an elite (not elitist) branding... everyday schlubs and corporate drones use PCs, whereas Artistes and the next George Lucases and so on use Macs. I can't imagine ever finding any significant Mac hardware for "Just 99.95!" nor do I expect to see it appear on the Home Shopping Network or at Walmart.
Of course, one could argue that this (along with the no-clones decision) is either brilliant marketing and branding, or the cause of Apple's struggle to maintain a 2 market share... or both.
Personally, I think 99 iPods would have cannibalized their upper-market and also tarnished their brand. They may have made a killing (so to speak) in the short-run, but in the long-run, I think Apple was wise to price their iPods as they have.
(Of course, if they wanted to be really sneaky, they could secretly sell their iPods guts and have them obscured/relabeled by a Chinese or Indian company and sold for 99.95 -- at Walmart -- obviously under a different name. They'd still have cannibalization issues, but (unless something leaked), no branding dilemmas).
By the same token, however, people that are truly serious about their computers and want to experience the Apple mystique are left out in the cold because of the artificially inflated prices. I speak from personal experience here. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get into using a Mac. I have not used one since high school back in 1990. That was that tiny little 4" black and white screen. I have had passing experience amounting to maybe a grand total of an hour or so on the new Macs, including the iMac and the G4. But these prices keep me from being a true convert.
I'd love to give the iPod a try. Again... price is what hold me back, when I can get the Creative Labs Jukebox for far less. Sure... it may be less sexy and not have the oh-so-chic Apple logo on it (which is sure to get me scowls from people I couldn't afford to talk to), but it works just as well.
And despite my Mac-friends' rhetoric to the contrary, I believe it really is a HUGE price difference.
6 months ago, I bought a Dell PC (on sale) that's a 2.4ghz Pentium, 60 gig hard drive, 256 megs of RAM, all the requisite ports and so on, for 429 after rebate (which I got, indeed, in about 5 weeks).
Yes, I added a hard drive and added RAM, but still, everything (except the monitor I used from my old computer) still came to under 600 for a very powerful system.
And this is 6 months ago. For the same price, you can probably get 2.8ghz machines now.
One can certainly make reasonable arguments about form and functionality, but in terms of raw power and basic necessities, PC's are sure more financially accessible than roughly equivalent Macs.
Quoted from "Mugsy Malone" Marcelo - those of us who already have a Mac have to pay 49 for GarageBand. But it's bundled free with any new Mac.
Still, 49 is sweet! It looks to basically be a stripped down version of Soundtrack. Either way, it's gonna be fun.
Most audio programs, even the basics, are at least 300 dollars or so. To offer it for 49 dollars with that many loops, amp plugins, functionality, synths, that's just INSANE. Even with the Jam Pack addon, it's still 150 bucks for what in the professional world would cost a few thousand dollars.
It is possible that the guy who spent all that money also bought lots of audiobooks, radio programs, etc that cost more than 99 cents...maybe. I dunno. Whatever.
I think the 249 price point on the mini ipod is a mistake. Most of the apple people I talked to were flummoxed. Why buy a 4gig player when you can spend 50 dollars more and get 15 gigs with a negligible increase in size? They're not going to get into that less-expensive player market. It needs to be 199 at the most in order to be competitive. Hell - right now, you can buy an old 10 gig iPod at a discount until they run out. The price? 249. Weird.
But I must say that there is generally something in the Apple hardware that's worth the price. This stuff works miracles. I've seen similar programs on PC's (Photoshop, Pro Tools, Avid) that are absolute jokes. Example - on Pro Tools, I can record live stereo inputs CONTINUOUSLY for over an hour without interruption. Hell, my mac could go to sleep and wake up still having recorded everything (I've confirmed this). If I tried that on a PC with PT or any other audio program, I'd get buffer underruns, dropped audio, maybe even a system crash. I don't even need a G4 for this functionality. I can do this kind of work on an old G3 iBook.
Yes, Apple is higher priced. But you DO get what you pay for.
Quoted from "ThatAdamGuy" And despite my Mac-friends' rhetoric to the contrary, I believe it really is a HUGE price difference.
6 months ago, I bought a Dell PC (on sale) that's a 2.4ghz Pentium, 60 gig hard drive, 256 megs of RAM, all the requisite ports and so on, for 429 after rebate (which I got, indeed, in about 5 weeks).
Yes, I added a hard drive and added RAM, but still, everything (except the monitor I used from my old computer) still came to under 600 for a very powerful system.
And this is 6 months ago. For the same price, you can probably get 2.8ghz machines now.
One can certainly make reasonable arguments about form and functionality, but in terms of raw power and basic necessities, PC's are sure more financially accessible than roughly equivalent Macs.
If you truly go spec for spec, quality for quality, and you look at all the internal components, the Mac is about 10 - 20 more than a name brand PC. Moreover, if you look at the TCO, PCs tend to be a lot more expensive over the long hall, particularly in quantity.
I own both Macs an PCs. I have supported both for over a decade.
I encouraged a friend of mine recently to get a Mac laptop. He is a internet securities expert, and a UNIX hack. He has always ran various flavors of UNIX and windows. The fact that OSX is built on a UNIX kernal, allowed him to look at the Mac seriously. He absolutely loves his Mac. He said he has never had more fun with a computer, and every time he sees me thanks me for making the suggestion.
They are elegant machines. They are not for everyone. As a computer consultant, I only recommend a Mac about 30 of the time. But for the right type of person, there is simply no better choice.
Marcelo, I dig it. The price for GarageBand is SOOO worth it. I was just pointing out that you had to pay for it (although I should have known you would know, because iLife no longer being "free" is about the only thing that anyone can discuss on any Apple mailing lists and boards right now).
TAG? Some folks just don't "get" Macs. They don't work for them. And that's just fine. I agree with Wexie. The Mac is not the right choice for everyone. Just like Linux is not the right choice for everyone. Use what you like - you prefer a PC? Then use one and more power to you. I love my Powerbook.
The first computer I ever used was an Apple II back in 2nd grade. My father always had Apple computers, including IIe, IIc, IIgs, and some of the very first Macs. I used my first PC for a business class in high school, and it was crap. I didn't start work hardcore on the PC until after college.
Anyway, my last Mac was a IIfx running System 7. Then I didn't have a Mac until OS X. I used my iMac for video work, but still used my PC for my web surfing and email, and other junk.
In September, I got a new PC. It has an amazingly fast Pentium 4 chip with hyper threading. 1 GB of RAM. A ginormous hard drive. A video card with more RAM that most computers. And so on.
Ever since I got my Powerbook, that PC is used for one thing. SETI Home. When I bring my work laptop home, it is only used to VPN into the company network and check email.
Different strokes for different folks. If you're focused on exactly how many pennies something costs, then the Mac is not for you. Neither is a BMW. But that doesn't make either wrong. There is plenty of room in this world for both BMW's and Honda Accords.
Oh, and before you accuse me of not knowing anything about Windows, or PC's, or of drinking Apple's kool-aid...I am a MCSA 2000 and have been a MCSE NT since 1998. I have been supporting Microsoft Windows networks and operating systems for almost ten years for some very large companies. I've seen Windows rolled out in almost any kind of environment you can imagine. So I'm not just an Apple zealot.
And finally...Wexie is right. You can't compare your Dell Pentium system to a G5. You have to compare the G5 to an Opteron. Or an Itanium system (once they are available).
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
You and I are actually pretty much on the same page. I must admit that I haven't worked on a Mac in, oh, 10 years... not because of any inherent dislike, but rather I've never really had an opportunity to. Most of my friends have PCs, I have a PC, everywhere I've worked has PCs, and so on.
I do realize that PCs and Macs are quite different, and are suited for particular tastes and needs.
I was just emphasizing earlier that -- for the price conscious in particular -- PCs are where it's at. And Wexie, I must admit respectful skepticism about TCO, excepting in corporate environments. I believe PC peripherals are considerably cheaper than Mac peripherals overall, largely due to the competition, and I'm not quite sure what other TCO issues would be factored into personal computing. But I'm certainly open to hearing more info about this.
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And about history... my first-ever personal computer was an Apple II . I remember having to buy a special chip to get the shift key to function in all programs, and I also remember my huge joy when I got a second floppy drive. Some of the games I remember playing were Aztec (with a horrid 'munching' sort of sound) and I THINK Ultima II (though that may have been on the PC I owned a few years later). Oh yeah, and Tapper. Pac Man. And Frogger. Oh boy!
I also fondly recall spending hours upon geeky hours with Visicalc, what I believe to be the precursor of Lotus 1-2-3. And I taught myself Basic, making all sorts of cool games (mostly word games) on that ol' Apple, and even helped my dad catalog his VHS tapes; I recall that it literally took my Basic program overnight to sort the list :D
My next Apple experiences were in my dorm's computer lab in undergrad. I remember those Macs being clunky, crash-prone, and slow (but they played a mean Wesleyan Tetris, if anyone remembers that obnoxiously loud but delightful variant). Pretty much like the PC I got a couple of years later.
Anyway, I definitely do need to get my hands on a Mac to understand what all the current excitement and fervor is about.
And in the meantime... may I ask, why are you holding on to your loaded PC to basically use as a paperweight? I'm sure there are many folks who'd be pleased to take it off your hands and perhaps even make a contribution to SETI Home in your name :D
My girlfriend was a little confused the first time she saw my home office...she wanted to know why I needed four computers (my Powerbook, my PC, my work laptop, and the Windyhop dev server were all in there).
The TCO doesn't just include hardware costs, TAG. You factor in software licensing and support costs. Plus the cost of lost business while a system is unavailable. These are just some of the factors involved.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
The time you spend playing with There is time away from your business or other profitable endeavors, thus indirectly but clearly increasing the costs incurred by your PC. And since the PC has far more games (online and offline), this TCO is magnified. ;)
Er, but wait a minute... if I take into account the amount of time some of the folks around here creating the 'next big movie' on their iMac from their home videos... well, maybe it's a wash? Hmm.
(Incidentally, is There particularly more involving than the other similarly-themed virtual reality thingamabobs available nowadays? I checked out a few of them (just the sites with descriptions and reviews), but figured I spent well enough time on Yehoodi, my sites, and other geeky stuff and decided not to open up a pandora's box.
I haven't really played with There.com in a while. Probably because I have to use my PC to do so ;)
It was kind of neat. A friend got me in on the beta was it was free, so that was worth checking out, but I quickly lost interest. Second Life seemed a lot cooler, with a great ability to create your own things.
I assume you are being sarcastic about TCO :)
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
My new favorite little piece of software is WeatherPop
It chills out in your menu bar and tells you the weather. So next to my little Airport signal icon, I've got one that says 9 degrees, with an icon of clouds.
If you click on it, it tells you more!
I highly recommend it. I'm running the beta that includes a screensaver that replicates the current weather. Neat [bleep!], yo.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
Of course, if you both had Powerbooks, you could have put one into target disk mode, and zipped it along via Firewire ;)
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
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Lounge:
The Kitchen Sink
- 1/11/03 12:00 am by Mugsy Malone
- 153358 views
This is the thread for all you Mac geeks out there... First topic: Jobs's keynote at MWSF and the associated announcements. New PowerBooks - 12" and 17" models Airport Extreme - Apple's implementation of 802.11g Keynote - Presentation software (what...Page(s): < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 47 48 Next > (1412 items total)
Mugsy Malone
Wexie,
I did an upgrade on my 10.2 Powerbook (brand new) and had no problems. I've heard both stories; some folks did upgrades that blew up, and a lot had no issues either.
I'd say if it's a brand new machine, upgrade should be fine.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
Mugsy Malone
OK, it's been a year, and here is what was just announced at MWSF by Mr. Jobs himself:
iPod Mini - the 4 GB "shiny" new iPod. Also, the 299 iPod has been upped to 15 GB.
Garage Band - a new part of iLife to make music. It's 49 and included free with all new Macs. It is a music instrument and recording tool, that can mix up to 64 tracks, comes with 50 software instruments, over 1,000 professional loops, and 200 effects. It can record live instruments and take input from a USB or MIDI controller. It simulates various modern and vintage amps for guitar playback.
The optional 99 Jam Pack adds 100 more instruments, 2,000 more loops, 15 more amps, and more effects.
Pepsi will be giving away 100 million songs in the iTunes Music Store. Pepsi's iTunes Music Store giveaway will begin on February 1. Yellow caps noting the 100 million song giveaway will have a 1 in 3 chance of winning.
Also updates to iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, and Final Cut Express. The best update is iPhoto (in my opinion); it now is capable of handling large libraries. I hear they demo-ed it with a 25,000 photo library with nary a hiccup. Yay!
Microsoft announced Office 2004, an upgrade to Office X. People who purchase Office X now until the spring, when 2004 is released, will be eligible for a free upgrade.
Jobs also noted that iTunes Music Store has 70 of the market share for online music purchasing; that 50,000 audio books were sold for the quarter; that 500,000 songs are now online, making the store the largest online; and that one person has spent 29,500 on iTunes Music Store. Yes, 29,500.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
Marcelo
I'm an audio professional, and I can't wait to get my hands on GarageBand. Considering it's offered along with the rest of the iLife suite, the power that they demonstrated at the keynote is INSANE. This is a complete STEAL.
Mugsy Malone
Marcelo - those of us who already have a Mac have to pay 49 for GarageBand. But it's bundled free with any new Mac.
Still, 49 is sweet! It looks to basically be a stripped down version of Soundtrack. Either way, it's gonna be fun.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
SwingKitten
Ooh, ooh, I want the iPod mini... it's preeeeeeeeetty....
Mugsy Malone
With the new 15 GB model, it's a good time to pick up a 10 GB (if you can find one).
A lot of retailers (including Apple stores) are dropping the price by up to fifty bucks until they move that old inventory out. So pick up a 10 GB for only 250! Good deal.
Personally, I'm going to hold onto my old first gen 5 GB for now. My prediction is that once the inventory of 20 and 40 GB 'Pods has gone down, Apple will magically release larger versions of those too :)
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
ThatAdamGuy
"one person has spent 29,500 on iTunes Music Store. Yes, 29,500."
What the ( ! was this person thinking?
That's 29,500 songs. If they listened to ten songs on their iPod every day, it'd take them just over eight years to hear all their music.
They could have spent 5-10 of that and bought the tunes at allofmp3.com. Or, if they wanted to listen to the music at their computer, they could have paid 120 a year to Napster or Rhapsody.
Sheesh.
Mugsy Malone
My guess is that it is some kind of shared account setup. Or someone purchasing music from iTMS for folks overseas.
Seriously, who the hell has that kind of music budget? But then again...
Maybe it is one of those services where they fill an iPod with music for you, and you plug it in at your store instead of Muzak? They could authorize all their iPods to a master server at the office, and then dump all the music (as needed) to each 'Pod.
Seriously, I bet that's what it is. Welcome to the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
Wombat
New mini-iPod is nifty, but pretty darn expensive. 250 for 4GB? With 300 for the 15GB full iPod?
Mugsy Malone
OK so someone [bleep!]ed up this thread...when you reply to it now, it says "cannot send email", and doesn't update properly.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
rikomatic
Mini-iPod is crazy expensive! I was hoping for something closer to 100.
Is this thread still eff'ed up? :-?
Flappers, Dandies & Lindy Hoppers Take over Governors Island for the "Jazz Age Lawn Party" (video)
Blowout Final Concert & Dance Competition for 2010 Midsummer Night Swing Festival
Mugsy Malone
I'm guessing the price will drop, Rik. I also think that there's the whole elitist thing about the iPod. If they made them 99, then 1) they wouldn't be able to meet demand, and 2) cheap ass bastids would own iPods and then they would no longer be cool.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
ThatAdamGuy
I agree with Mugsy on this one. Apple has an elite (not elitist) branding... everyday schlubs and corporate drones use PCs, whereas Artistes and the next George Lucases and so on use Macs. I can't imagine ever finding any significant Mac hardware for "Just 99.95!" nor do I expect to see it appear on the Home Shopping Network or at Walmart.
Of course, one could argue that this (along with the no-clones decision) is either brilliant marketing and branding, or the cause of Apple's struggle to maintain a 2 market share... or both.
Personally, I think 99 iPods would have cannibalized their upper-market and also tarnished their brand. They may have made a killing (so to speak) in the short-run, but in the long-run, I think Apple was wise to price their iPods as they have.
(Of course, if they wanted to be really sneaky, they could secretly sell their iPods guts and have them obscured/relabeled by a Chinese or Indian company and sold for 99.95 -- at Walmart -- obviously under a different name. They'd still have cannibalization issues, but (unless something leaked), no branding dilemmas).
TheCheeta
By the same token, however, people that are truly serious about their computers and want to experience the Apple mystique are left out in the cold because of the artificially inflated prices. I speak from personal experience here. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get into using a Mac. I have not used one since high school back in 1990. That was that tiny little 4" black and white screen. I have had passing experience amounting to maybe a grand total of an hour or so on the new Macs, including the iMac and the G4. But these prices keep me from being a true convert.
I'd love to give the iPod a try. Again... price is what hold me back, when I can get the Creative Labs Jukebox for far less. Sure... it may be less sexy and not have the oh-so-chic Apple logo on it (which is sure to get me scowls from people I couldn't afford to talk to), but it works just as well.
ThatAdamGuy
And despite my Mac-friends' rhetoric to the contrary, I believe it really is a HUGE price difference.
6 months ago, I bought a Dell PC (on sale) that's a 2.4ghz Pentium, 60 gig hard drive, 256 megs of RAM, all the requisite ports and so on, for 429 after rebate (which I got, indeed, in about 5 weeks).
Yes, I added a hard drive and added RAM, but still, everything (except the monitor I used from my old computer) still came to under 600 for a very powerful system.
And this is 6 months ago. For the same price, you can probably get 2.8ghz machines now.
One can certainly make reasonable arguments about form and functionality, but in terms of raw power and basic necessities, PC's are sure more financially accessible than roughly equivalent Macs.
Marcelo
Most audio programs, even the basics, are at least 300 dollars or so. To offer it for 49 dollars with that many loops, amp plugins, functionality, synths, that's just INSANE. Even with the Jam Pack addon, it's still 150 bucks for what in the professional world would cost a few thousand dollars.
It is possible that the guy who spent all that money also bought lots of audiobooks, radio programs, etc that cost more than 99 cents...maybe. I dunno. Whatever.
I think the 249 price point on the mini ipod is a mistake. Most of the apple people I talked to were flummoxed. Why buy a 4gig player when you can spend 50 dollars more and get 15 gigs with a negligible increase in size? They're not going to get into that less-expensive player market. It needs to be 199 at the most in order to be competitive. Hell - right now, you can buy an old 10 gig iPod at a discount until they run out. The price? 249. Weird.
But I must say that there is generally something in the Apple hardware that's worth the price. This stuff works miracles. I've seen similar programs on PC's (Photoshop, Pro Tools, Avid) that are absolute jokes. Example - on Pro Tools, I can record live stereo inputs CONTINUOUSLY for over an hour without interruption. Hell, my mac could go to sleep and wake up still having recorded everything (I've confirmed this). If I tried that on a PC with PT or any other audio program, I'd get buffer underruns, dropped audio, maybe even a system crash. I don't even need a G4 for this functionality. I can do this kind of work on an old G3 iBook.
Yes, Apple is higher priced. But you DO get what you pay for.
Wexie
If you truly go spec for spec, quality for quality, and you look at all the internal components, the Mac is about 10 - 20 more than a name brand PC. Moreover, if you look at the TCO, PCs tend to be a lot more expensive over the long hall, particularly in quantity.
I own both Macs an PCs. I have supported both for over a decade.
I encouraged a friend of mine recently to get a Mac laptop. He is a internet securities expert, and a UNIX hack. He has always ran various flavors of UNIX and windows. The fact that OSX is built on a UNIX kernal, allowed him to look at the Mac seriously. He absolutely loves his Mac. He said he has never had more fun with a computer, and every time he sees me thanks me for making the suggestion.
They are elegant machines. They are not for everyone. As a computer consultant, I only recommend a Mac about 30 of the time. But for the right type of person, there is simply no better choice.
Mugsy Malone
Marcelo, I dig it. The price for GarageBand is SOOO worth it. I was just pointing out that you had to pay for it (although I should have known you would know, because iLife no longer being "free" is about the only thing that anyone can discuss on any Apple mailing lists and boards right now).
TAG? Some folks just don't "get" Macs. They don't work for them. And that's just fine. I agree with Wexie. The Mac is not the right choice for everyone. Just like Linux is not the right choice for everyone. Use what you like - you prefer a PC? Then use one and more power to you. I love my Powerbook.
The first computer I ever used was an Apple II back in 2nd grade. My father always had Apple computers, including IIe, IIc, IIgs, and some of the very first Macs. I used my first PC for a business class in high school, and it was crap. I didn't start work hardcore on the PC until after college.
Anyway, my last Mac was a IIfx running System 7. Then I didn't have a Mac until OS X. I used my iMac for video work, but still used my PC for my web surfing and email, and other junk.
In September, I got a new PC. It has an amazingly fast Pentium 4 chip with hyper threading. 1 GB of RAM. A ginormous hard drive. A video card with more RAM that most computers. And so on.
Ever since I got my Powerbook, that PC is used for one thing. SETI Home. When I bring my work laptop home, it is only used to VPN into the company network and check email.
Different strokes for different folks. If you're focused on exactly how many pennies something costs, then the Mac is not for you. Neither is a BMW. But that doesn't make either wrong. There is plenty of room in this world for both BMW's and Honda Accords.
Oh, and before you accuse me of not knowing anything about Windows, or PC's, or of drinking Apple's kool-aid...I am a MCSA 2000 and have been a MCSE NT since 1998. I have been supporting Microsoft Windows networks and operating systems for almost ten years for some very large companies. I've seen Windows rolled out in almost any kind of environment you can imagine. So I'm not just an Apple zealot.
And finally...Wexie is right. You can't compare your Dell Pentium system to a G5. You have to compare the G5 to an Opteron. Or an Itanium system (once they are available).
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
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Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
ThatAdamGuy
Mugsy,
You and I are actually pretty much on the same page. I must admit that I haven't worked on a Mac in, oh, 10 years... not because of any inherent dislike, but rather I've never really had an opportunity to. Most of my friends have PCs, I have a PC, everywhere I've worked has PCs, and so on.
I do realize that PCs and Macs are quite different, and are suited for particular tastes and needs.
I was just emphasizing earlier that -- for the price conscious in particular -- PCs are where it's at. And Wexie, I must admit respectful skepticism about TCO, excepting in corporate environments. I believe PC peripherals are considerably cheaper than Mac peripherals overall, largely due to the competition, and I'm not quite sure what other TCO issues would be factored into personal computing. But I'm certainly open to hearing more info about this.
---
And about history... my first-ever personal computer was an Apple II . I remember having to buy a special chip to get the shift key to function in all programs, and I also remember my huge joy when I got a second floppy drive. Some of the games I remember playing were Aztec (with a horrid 'munching' sort of sound) and I THINK Ultima II (though that may have been on the PC I owned a few years later). Oh yeah, and Tapper. Pac Man. And Frogger. Oh boy!
I also fondly recall spending hours upon geeky hours with Visicalc, what I believe to be the precursor of Lotus 1-2-3. And I taught myself Basic, making all sorts of cool games (mostly word games) on that ol' Apple, and even helped my dad catalog his VHS tapes; I recall that it literally took my Basic program overnight to sort the list :D
My next Apple experiences were in my dorm's computer lab in undergrad. I remember those Macs being clunky, crash-prone, and slow (but they played a mean Wesleyan Tetris, if anyone remembers that obnoxiously loud but delightful variant). Pretty much like the PC I got a couple of years later.
Anyway, I definitely do need to get my hands on a Mac to understand what all the current excitement and fervor is about.
And in the meantime... may I ask, why are you holding on to your loaded PC to basically use as a paperweight? I'm sure there are many folks who'd be pleased to take it off your hands and perhaps even make a contribution to SETI Home in your name :D
Mugsy Malone
Well I also use it for There.com :)
My girlfriend was a little confused the first time she saw my home office...she wanted to know why I needed four computers (my Powerbook, my PC, my work laptop, and the Windyhop dev server were all in there).
The TCO doesn't just include hardware costs, TAG. You factor in software licensing and support costs. Plus the cost of lost business while a system is unavailable. These are just some of the factors involved.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
-
Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
ThatAdamGuy
Ah, now I better understand TCO!
The time you spend playing with There is time away from your business or other profitable endeavors, thus indirectly but clearly increasing the costs incurred by your PC. And since the PC has far more games (online and offline), this TCO is magnified. ;)
Er, but wait a minute... if I take into account the amount of time some of the folks around here creating the 'next big movie' on their iMac from their home videos... well, maybe it's a wash? Hmm.
(Incidentally, is There particularly more involving than the other similarly-themed virtual reality thingamabobs available nowadays? I checked out a few of them (just the sites with descriptions and reviews), but figured I spent well enough time on Yehoodi, my sites, and other geeky stuff and decided not to open up a pandora's box.
Mugsy Malone
I haven't really played with There.com in a while. Probably because I have to use my PC to do so ;)
It was kind of neat. A friend got me in on the beta was it was free, so that was worth checking out, but I quickly lost interest. Second Life seemed a lot cooler, with a great ability to create your own things.
I assume you are being sarcastic about TCO :)
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
-
Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
ThatAdamGuy
Yes, I was just teasing about TCO. Past 4am'ish my sense of humor devolves a bit.
And on that note, I think I'll catch a few hours of sleep.
Mugsy Malone
For all of you on OS X...
My new favorite little piece of software is WeatherPop
It chills out in your menu bar and tells you the weather. So next to my little Airport signal icon, I've got one that says 9 degrees, with an icon of clouds.
If you click on it, it tells you more!
I highly recommend it. I'm running the beta that includes a screensaver that replicates the current weather. Neat [bleep!], yo.
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
-
Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
redhead
cue Veruca Salt voice Ooooooooooh! I want one!
http://www.apple.com/ipodmini/
Eli
wonder if anyone will come up with a way for 2 iPods to transfer data between eachother with just a cable.
Drew
Hell with cable, let's have an infrared port. Beam, baby, beam...
"It's really rather amusing to see you continue to argue essentially that the earth is flat." —Hoya01 to Zenin
Mugsy Malone
Infrared?
How freakin' SLOW would that be??
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
-
Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
TheCheeta
I tried doing an MP3 transfer from my laptop to another DJ's... it was pathetic.
Mugsy Malone
Of course, if you both had Powerbooks, you could have put one into target disk mode, and zipped it along via Firewire ;)
"Marcelo, sometimes, your cruelty is delicious." - Frankyboy
-
Want to help save the lives of homeless dogs and cats in Chicago? Support my attempt at running an 8K race - http://mattstratton.com/PAWS2010
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